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Hating God

Online forums and blog discussion boards can be a nasty place. Comments are sometimes mean-spirited and usually don’t obey the rules of grammar. Insults are spewed forth like machine gun fire, and logic is regarded a strange, untamed beast. This heated textual warfare seems to bring out the most ludicrous and profoundly ignorant statements as commenters make their opinions known.

The atheist websites and discussion forums I frequent aren’t any different. Illogical statements about God and believers are commonly revered as unassailable dogma. No argument will persuade, or even soften, the stance of the most vocal, hard-hearted atheists. Nearly any logical fallacy or blatant untruth is embraced as long as it meshes with the materialistic worldview.

In short, Biblical truth of any kind will not be tolerated. They simply refuse to hear. Most of those who spend time in these type of environments are in no way interested in learning the truth at all. Any question posed comes not from a soft heart honestly seeking answers, but from a hardened one resisting the answers it already has. They wish to tear down the God of the Bible and erect in His place a god of their own making. One reader on the Suddenly Atheist blog commented:

Yehweh (sic) is one of the most blatantly viscious (sic) gods in all of religious history. The scripture waxes eloquent in this regard. Read Numbers 23. He is petty, evil, and angry. Pure and simple. He commands over and over for people to be killed. Epic Bible FAIL.

Why the hostility towards something that, to the atheist, doesn’t even exist?

The answer to this question can be summed up in one verse from the Book of John: “For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.” (John 3:20, ESV). These rather harsh words were spoken by Jesus Himself and testified as to why people would reject and hate Him. Like all sinners (I’m not just picking on the atheists, by the way), the atheist nurses hidden sins that God hates. This could mean anything from pride to pornagraphy – maybe something even worse. And what’s more, according to Romans 1:18-22, they know it. The light of Jesus Christ and the Gospel exposes their sins to the light of conscience, forcing them to either repent or bury the truth even further.

In hand with this is the innate knowledge of God’s righteous judgement. Again, Romans 1 indicates that each person, including the atheist, knows that they will be judged and held accountable for their works on this earth. On that day, the person’s own conscience will take the witness stand and testify against them. This witness will tell the court of every lie, every adulterous or hateful though, every theft, every blasphemy. Paul writes of this in Romans 2:15, “They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them” (ESV). The verdict given by the Judge will be swift and without clemency: guilty. The punishment will be no less than an eternity in Hell – a fitting penalty for the violation of an infinite God’s holy laws.

While most atheists will vehemently deny these are the reasons why they despise Jesus Christ, nonetheless the their hatred springs forth from an unabashed love for sin. And like any other lover of sin, only Jesus’ work on the Cross can save them.


19 Responses

  1. Being an atheist and arguing against the existence of a god is not the same as hating a particular god. The comment that you referred to is not a hateful comment. I make the same arguments even though I don’t believe in a god. The reason is simple and not hateful. Why would anyone, not only believe in a god like Yahweh, but worship a character that if real would be guilty of crimes against humanity? It is a bit strange.

  2. Well said! I was following that thread and dropped out when I realized they weren’t interested in reason at all.

    The latest bit of misinterpretation was when he referred to Jephthah (Judges 11) as if God told him to sacrifice his daughter. Atheists like this ignore the obvious fact that the Bible doesn’t show approval for all its records — in fact, it is pointing out how all are sinners in need of a Savior.

    Good looking blog and tone! Keep up the good work.

  3. “The latest bit of misinterpretation was when he referred to Jephthah (Judges 11) as if God told him to sacrifice his daughter. Atheists like this ignore the obvious fact that the Bible doesn’t show approval for all its records — in fact, it is pointing out how all are sinners in need of a Savior.”

    BZZZT! Wrong. No God didn’t tell him to sacrifice his daughter, but did he failed to punish him for making an illegal promise. Unless throwing his daughter under the bus like that Was the punishment.

    Second, that’s a moral cop out. It’s saying, “I do wrong, but instead of fessing up to my crimes, I’ll just speak to my god and he will make it all better- i’m forgiven.”

    You know, that’s were the deplorable license plate frame- “we aren’t perfect, just forgiven” came from.

    And what good does it do God to only put forth consistent negative role models? Why set people up to interpret insane behavior such as infanticide, genicide, polygamy, cannabalism, and human sacrifice as perfectly within reason?

    And Neil, why don’t you take a good look at all the contradictions that there are in your infallible scripture on the About page. David was the one who gets the credit for those findings- though naturally, it was only Inter-Scripture contradictions, making no mention of historical vacuity and ethical reprehensibility.

    Print a copy of those scriptural contradictions, and these sources as well ( http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/otarch.html and http://www.georgeleonard.com/yahweh.html ). Mull over the knowledge, spread the information, ask for guidance and and come back with a fully complete statement. Otherwise, it’s just empty words.

    Besides, Ad Hominem. You make an empty claim with no evidence, then procede to prosletize. Again, you are the person who takes his beliefs day to day at face value and never challendges himself to learn more about them. So yeah, also an argument from incredulity.

    And Jesus was a cool guy, and a good man like Say Ghandi or Mother Teresa. Neither of which beleived in your God- Mother Teresa wrote many many letters to this affect; look on the wikepedia page or Time magazine online.

    His dad was the real A**hole. Note that Yeshua also was likely nonexistant or a compilation of other figures- notably Mithra, Dionysus, and possibly other “Messias”/ Yeshuas that were rather popular in 1st Century Palestine (Not that Baal/Yehweh/Elohim/Adonai are any way different in this regard). Heck, they are Still a dime a dozen as christians love to point out.

    Happy Saturnalia one and all.

  4. Oh and Neil- cherry picking. If you are going to talk about anti-intellectual behavior, don’t put yourself out there as exhibit B. And it’s best not to lie about exhibit A as well.

    Joyous Festivus! 😉

  5. I just love Bible lessons from atheists! Even with a 2nd try you deliberately misinterpret Jephthah. Thanks for proving my point.

    I’ve analyzed and written on the alleged contradicitons many times, but thanks for conceding how much you stereotype and pre-judge. I typically address a couple as freebies for skeptics but move on when I realize they aren’t really interested in dialogue. It is the hold your pearls / shake the dust thing. Believe it or not, my faith does not require me to answer endless questions from those hostile to the faith.

    Jesus didn’t force anyone to believe, so I don’t try to either. But I’ve got great news for anyone who is truly interested.

    You make an empty claim with no evidence

    Yeah, no evidence, other than cosmological, teleological, morality, historical, archeological, etc. See any of the apologetics links on my page.

    That’s your queue, buddy — now you get to say, “But I only accept scientific evidence!” But of course any intelligent person knows that you can’t use science to prove that only science can determine truth (circular reference) and that we discern all sorts of truths without science. (Kudos to you if you weren’t going to take that predictable path, and my apologies for hypocritically pre-judging you).

    Speaking of contradictions, there are no kudos to you for living in such wild contradiction to your worldview. Remember, if If the universe really came into being from nothing, and life came from non-life and “evolved” to what we see today, then those processes led to the Bible and our religious beliefs.

    So your beloved materialistic Darwinism is responsible for my faith! What irony.

    We are just bags of chemicals who don’t have any real free will. People like you have no reason for pride and they are being illogical in thinking they are being logical, because there would be no such thing. Your “reason” and “morality” would not be grounded in anything. (Such is the thinking of those in rebellion to God.)

    But of course, you can’t go two sentences without making moral claims, even though your worldview requires that morality is relative. You guys are the preachiest and most judgmental people I know.

    Who are you to judge that Gandhi or Mother Teresa were good, or that anyone is bad? It is so ironic that Christians are considered to be judgmental yet you sit in judgment of all these people and God as well.

    So how about a little consistency, eh?

    And Jesus was a cool guy

    How did you come to that conclusion? Do you have some special knowledge about him that you consider to be reliable, because you atheists insist that the original writings about him are false. How can you just pick out the parts you like and assume they are true?

    Besides, you are just like the theological liberal Christians who think it is PC to say that “Jesus was cool” even though you don’t understand what He said. The Sermon on the Mount was as judgmental as could be. Jesus pointed out how all the other religions and man-made systems were wrong. He talked twice as much about Hell as He did about Heaven. He claimed to be God. He insisted that you deny yourself and follow him only. Not very pluralistic, was He?

    So if you want to disagree with the historical facts of his life and death and the highly reliable writings about him, then go ahead. But spare me the “Jesus was a cool guy” idiocy.

    Your copycat religions Mithra stuff is recycled nonsense that was disproved in the mid-20th century. It has just been resurrected by ignorant / deceptive people on the Internet. But it is such an easy sound bite that intellectually lazy people lap it up.

    Besides, Ad Hominem. You make an empty claim with no evidence, then procede to prosletize. Again, you are the person who takes his beliefs day to day at face value and never challendges himself to learn more about them. So yeah, also an argument from incredulity.

    You might want to freshen up on your studies of your logical fallacies and your Big Book O’ Atheist Sound Bites, because you keep confusing terms and examples.

    And I’m not sure where you got the impression that you were a mind reader, but the fact is that I came to faith in my late 20’s after challenging all sorts of beliefs. I was as skeptical as you and maybe more. Oh, you don’t believe me? Who cares?!

    Please try to live a little more consistently with your worldview. As it is you are just a kicking, screamng poster boy for Romans 1:

    Romans 1:18-20 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

    The Good News for you is that there is still hope.

  6. P.S. Merry Christ-mass and Happy Holy-days, everyone! Emmanuel — God with us! — is truly worth celebrating.

  7. P.S.S. Please don’t be wounded if I ignore you from here on out. I have had many charitable discussions with atheists, but those who refer to God with swear words are so juvenile and disrespectful that mature dialogue is usually impossible.

  8. Rich,
    it looks like your readers proved your point :). So many people have been wounded on both sides of the faith debate, it seems like it takes a very strong commitment to respectful dialogue to have a conversation without deteriorating into nastiness. The Jewish tradition places a lot more value on questioning and “wrestling” with scripture–sometimes I think the Christian value on having the answers has really closed us up to being able to have honest dialogues (e.g. being willing to learn alongside people of other faiths as opposed to just wanting to teach). I am, of course, an ultra liberal christian so take my thoughts for whatever they’re worth to you.

    Merry Christmas and hugs to you and your family from your sister-in-law 🙂

  9. Sure Anna, thanks. I think it is this lack of regard for the J texts in general that leads to thier sense of utter rightfulness.

    Neil says i’m wrong about Jephtah, but not how. Very convincing. Also note: David’s 1st son- killed by God as punishment.

    He says he can account for all the contradictions- again, no elaboration. And note that i stereotype, even when the Only person i was talking about was Neil.

    “Believe it or not, my faith does not require me to answer endless questions from those hostile to the faith. “- /translation: I will be as intellectually dishonest and evasive as i want to be.
    Answering questions is not required, but prosletyzing is?? What a great job of spreading the good word then!
    And FYI, humans are by their very nature, hostile to God- according to doctrine; therefore, you contradict yourself.

    “Jesus didn’t force anyone to believe, so I don’t try to either. But I’ve got great news for anyone who is truly interested.”- but Jesus supposedly gave proof for his divinity, as did the OT Elohim/YHWH. Where did he go? Where did all the evidence go as well?

    “Yeah, no evidence, other than…”

    teleological- what’s the function of heaven? What purpose does God himself serve?

    morality- like “in-group, out-group”- same as chimps and gorillas. Or Wolf packs, or some birds, or even hive-minded insects.

    historical/archeological- you didn’t even look at the first link i posted. There were Never any Isrealites in Egypt, and Moses likely never existed!

    Logic exists apart from science, and obviously is another entity which determines truth. Truth cannot be ascertained other than through logic, as only the probability that some thing or other being realistic- thus Theories or models.

    Anything else is just a shared opinion, like ghosts for example- are a shared opinion. Or that say Asians are poor drivers. Just opinions unless statistically shown to be true, and even so, that only can show that there is a correlation, not that there necessarily is a cause/effect relationship involved, or a basis for reality. Eyewitnesses aren’t often trustworthy because nearly everyone sees something different, and all may be different from what actually happened, something which can be verified with serveilance equipment or measuring apparati.

    “though you don’t understand what He said” Define “He.” Which Jesus said all this? And note also, there is no evidence for Nazareth having been inhabited in the 1st Century- as well as no extrabiblical accounts for his existance. Always the referances is to the followers, but never to the man himself. Interesting isn’t it?

    “Copycat religions” link was a good laugh. The comments you never addressed on that page refute you at every point- same thing here with scatheist.

    Also no historicity to your claims. Except that there was a common denominator for religion- Archetypes and Astrology. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wij5qdNgxw8&

    Note that in every instance paganism predeeded monotheism. Coincidence? No. And Eastern religions do not share the same root as Meditteranean or European, North/ South American pantheons, nor do these even share a base with Ugaritic pantheons ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llCm3gLU6tM&NR=1 )

    “Atheists like this ignore the obvious fact that the Bible doesn’t show approval for all its records — in fact, it is pointing out how all are sinners in need of a Savior.”
    So i was stereotyping huh? Wow, what a projection! And yes, Ad hominem.

    The good news for you is that there is nothing else that you said that deserves comment. So we’re done.

    Anna, i would very much like to discuss beliefs with you. Christians like yourself are much more willing to take into account the reality of the archeology and the effectiveness of the Document Hypothesis. I had a very hearty discussion on Suddenly Atheist with an Eastern Orthodox Philosophy major, a man called Zacharias; it was very revealing, in a good way. I hope i will have the same luxury with you. 🙂

    And it’s officially a Merry Christmas now. Enjoy it everybody!

  10. Hi there,
    I’m afraid I’m not much good when it comes to debating (or even “discussing” :)) the existence of God. I believe in God the way I believe I love my husband–it would be impossible to prove either way but it just makes sense to me every day so I go on believing it.
    I love the Christian story because it is my culture’s best attempt at understanding God and I also love that different people in different times can see it in new ways (as in latin american and black liberation theology, feminist theology etc.). I love Jesus for probably many of the reasons that you see him as a “cool guy” :)–his persistent undermining of the status quo, his insistence on surrounding himself with inappropriate people, his fearless opposition to empire, his subversive interactions that raised the status of women and children and most of all his utter commitment to non-violence, even to the point of submitting to death rather than use violence against his enemies. And then, of course, there’s the resurrection, filling all of us with hope that God is more powerful than the oppression and violence of the world and that the way of justice and peace cannot be conquered, even by the most powerful empire or the most horrible death.
    So… when you get frustrated with us Christians for not making sense, remember that we are just fools in love. Some of us perhaps more defensive or aggressive about it than others, but all of us swept away at the possibility that there could be a God who loves each of us and is working salvation in this world.

    Merry Christmas!

  11. i have no problem with salvation- that’s neat. It’s actualy the “Cool guy” status that underlies the big beef with atheists on a personal level. Yehweh is THE MAN in no small sense as big business of big government- or even monarchy.

    George Carlin was even up for the ideas that Jesus espoused.
    So Anna, i have nothing but good things to say about that comment- since your God is Jesus, not the infantile father-figure. You have a much closer grasp to humanity for such bold and refresging sentiment- though i certainly can see that it is becoming the norm of the remaining christians in the U.S. After all, are there any things on this page – http://suddenlyatheist.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/what-this-atheist-does-believe/ -that you disagree with?

    And i believe that you can prove love. It is an action, a devotion that speaks itself in the behavior and connection between people.
    Is love merely a nuerochemical process that furthers our species procreatively and socially? I think the bigger question is “What does it matter?” It exists as it does regardless of the underlying process, as a physiological manifestation of consciousness. That i feel, is easily proven.

    Can love be manufactured? In what sense isn’t it already by the human body? Or by pharmecueticals? And again, our brain chemistry- in which our evolutionary liniage, deeply intertwined with the concept of group survival taking presidence over an individual, makes this word “love” that much more an integral part of humanity, not lessened in any way.

    Again, only when you adhere to strict ideology such as the idea of ‘Love” will one be dissapointed. But such as it is in every area of life, don’t you agree Anna?

  12. So… when you get frustrated with us Christians for not making sense, remember that we are just fools in love.

    Ugh. Please don’t speak for all Christians when you say things like that. It perpetuates the myth that Christians have a “blind faith.” If you aren’t going to do the hard work to be able to defend the faith then at least don’t spout errors like that. It mocks the cross and the blood of the martyrs. Also see 1 Peter 3:15 and obey it.

    I promise not to speak for you when I note that Christianity is a faith grounded in evidence and history. Christians who study the Bible will know that.

  13. Okay, Neil, what physical evidence do you have for your god’s existence. The Bible doesn’t count, since “the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so” is a circular argument. Let’s see some real, honest to god, evidence for your god’s existence.

    You claim Christianity is a “faith” founded on evidence. Since “faith” doesn’t require evidence, your claim is really a non sequitur, but that’s a quibble. Trot out some of this evidence. Oh, and it has to be real evidence. Tomastic philosophy isn’t evidence.

  14. Rick–the love reference was a metaphor (perhaps ill chosen) to speak to the idea that there are many things in this life that we cannot prove, yet feel sure of in our hearts. “Is not what we know far less than the hope we feel?” (Jose Maria Arguedas). I certainly agree with the point you make that spirituality and science are complementary and do not have the power to negate each other.

    Neil–I apologize, I should certainly not presume to speak for you. As far as 1Peter 3:15, I actually was giving what I thought was a rather lovely account for the hope that is within me–the power of God to work salvation in the world through the path of non-violence. It is, in fact, my greatest hope. And Neil, don’t forget the part about gentleness and respect :). I would also, in good humor, point out I Corinthians 3:18 “Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standard of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight”. 🙂
    Finally, in my understanding of the faith, it is indifference to war and poverty and the sanctioning of violence by the church that mocks the cross and the blood of the martyrs, not love of God and a deep commitment to relating respectfully to people of all faiths and traditions.

  15. Neil, don’t [resume you speak for the real point of Christ either- the bringe builder between man to God. Don’t try to add political and ethical stuff to your god and pretend that it was “His ideas” all along. Again, making empty claims, saying nothing.

    I think Anna is closer to what God would have wanted, because Neil, your faith is a dead hope in the face of science and reason. Anna’s is a fine instrument of good deeds and intellectual discourse.

    Aaaaannd…. No True Scotsma Falacy. You try to put down Anna’s beliefs simply to try and further your fostered agendas, almost in a sense of denying the validity of what she says. I assume you also thought Dr. King to be Apostate? *Roll*

    You don’t have to justify goodness, Anna. Pay Neil no nevermind. He hasn’t defended his faith at all, while yours seems to need no defense. What he says is irrelevant. Keep up the Christian values of tolerance and equality, the “everyone is something good waiting” mentality. It may be a bit naive and optimistic, but the living out of such a perspective says far more than any opposing opinions such as Neil’s.

  16. Rick–my faith is a bit more to me than just good deeds and intellectual discourse, but I think I know what you mean and do appreciate it. Also, to place myself in context, I am a social worker who has spent her entire adult life working with child abuse and trauma (both victims and perpetrators) and so while I may be optimistic, I assure you that I am not even remotely naive. Certainly I am capable of absorbing hostility without being tempted to abandon the core tenets of my belief system :).
    Neil is very right that no one should presume to speak for all Christians–there is a huge population of people around the world who consider themselves to be Christian but within that population there are vehement disagreements about what that means and the practicalities about how a “real” Christian should think and behave. We all study the same text but, based largely on culture and social location, often come away with very different impressions of what God is wanting from us. This is, of course, true for every large religion.
    Anyway, my point is this: I love theology (that is, the dialogue about what exactly it means to be a person of faith) and could talk about it all day drawing on all of the evidence, history and scripture that you both are referencing. When it comes to faith (that is, belief in God–specfically a God who loves us), however, to me it truly is as mysterious as falling in love and so I do not presume to fully understand, much less be qualified to instruct others. Further, the non-negotiables of my theology center much more around what a person should do, rather than what a person should believe. So, like I said at the beginning, I’m no good at debating with athiests since I find that we usually agree on just about everything but the tug at my heart that tells me there is a God who loves us and is moving in the world in big and small ways to bring about our salvation. Best of luck on your journey.


  17. ‘Tis Himself et al — please learn more about the thing you are trying to crtiticize. Read the book of Acts and note how the early church spread. They pointed to evidence, not “blind faith.” When you mischaracterize Biblical Christianity so thoroughly it is hard to take you seriously. Re. evidence — see the apologetics links at my site if you are really interested.

    Anna, I hope you realize that Rick just considers you to be a useful idiot. He thinks you are all wrong about God, but your morals just happen to line up with his moral relativism so he “tolerates” you. That is the ironic kind of po-mo tolerance, of course, where you “tolerate” those who agree with you. I subscribe to the classic kind where you respect people who disagree with you but don’t necessarily tolerate the ideas.

    And your collective stereotypes are so false and prejudiced that it is laughable. But no reason to let facts get in the way, eh? Did any of you stop to ask if I am a fan of charity and good deeds? Have you reviewed my 1040’s to see who I donate to? Do you have access to my calendar to know all the charities I’m involved with? Did you ask what my faith in Christ has motivated me to do with my time and money? Didn’t think so. I don’t trumpet my “good deeds” to try to win atheists over. I was just addressing the truth claims presented here.

    Anna, I’m always in a 1 Peter 3:15-16 mood with anyone with serious inquiries, but I’m also in a 2 Corinthians 10:5 mood with bad reasoning, as well as a pearl holding / dust shaking mood when the situation applies.

    1 Peter 3:15-16 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

    2 Corinthians 10:5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

    Contrary to the prejudiced stereotypes here, I have regular conversations with friends and acquaintances who are Muslims, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, etc. We get along great. I treat them all with respect but I don’t say stupid things like, “Both our religious views can be right.” That would be a lie.

    Anna, thanks for the wisdom reminder. You know, of course, that it is a two-way street, right? Or was that just your way of trying to dismiss my arguments by acting like I’m being foolish? The context of I Corinthians 3:18 is against worldy wisdom like Rick’s, not against the wisdom found in the Bible. If you think I’ve misinterpreted the Bible then by all means show me where and how. But don’t throw a verse at me out of context as an ad hominem argument.

    Rick, I know you love your “no true Scotsman” thing, and I’ll be glad to let you know when you finally make a valid application of it. It is rather ironic that in one paragraph you criticize me for linking ethical things to Christ and in the next you praise Anna for her “good deeds.”

  18. Neil,
    I actually don’t remember attacking anything you said. I was not calling you foolish, only referencing my own characterization of myself (just me!) as a “fool” for God. I also don’t remember questioning your commitment to charity? As you asked, I am only speaking for myself.

    As an aside, “useful idiot” is not a term that Lenin actually ever used. It is actually a term that has been used by political conservatives to accuse political liberals of being foolish to oppose the cold war and accompanying nuclear arms race. In that regard, it’s less a historical term and more a bullying technique. With that in mind, I must return to the Corinthians passage and say without reservation that if the wisdom of the world says that the way to be safe is to spend our national budget on enough explosives to blow up the earth, then I will gladly be a fool (useful or otherwise).
    Also Neil, regardless of your mood, I don’t think that 2Cor 10:5 precludes gentleness and respect. Further, if 1Peter commands gentleness and respect so that others might be “ashamed of their slander”, then it seems that gentleness is not actually reserved only for people who approach you with a soft heart and eagerness to learn from you.

  19. There’s no such thing as a “useful idiot”. There is such a thing as a flock of sheep however. But Anna’s no pawn of mine or anyone’s, so saying she is “useful” in that sense is simply diminishing her own individual capabilities. You have such a problem with group identity.

    Nor do i consider Anna an idiot. Her brand of beliefs aren’t idiotic as they do not interfere with the rights and privileges of others for no reason- and she answers to herself in her decision making. She is her own person, and her statements prove that this is the case. She is a pluralist, something that is supposed to be a very American value; just ask the Founding Fathers. I may disagree, but like i said, since atheists and pluralists do not let the designation of one’s faith get in the way of their relationships with people, that is not a necessary consideration.

    Twin Skies is a very neat guy who comments on Pharyngula- and self-identifies as a Roman Catholic. Despite that, he is one of the more pleasant and personally interesting characters on the site (he likes anime as well 🙂 And i already mentioned Zacharias. Even John Shore, though he has a personal grudge against me, is a fairly decent guy. http://johnshoreland.com/

    Again with the words in my mouth about stereotypes? Get over yourself. I only reference specific individuals.

    And you weren’t calling her a false christian with your tongue and cheek rhetoric about her not studying the Bible hard enough? Besides, Atheists are the more scholarly ( on average) in regards to what the Bible says and is- they have to be. Ask David Marjanović, OM , or Owlmirror- also an Order of the Molly recipient. Or look at all the various links that are posted on Morsec0de’s Godless Bible Study.

    Here’s even a link from a Jewish study of the different versions of the Bible/ Torah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ipRZyqr3RE

    And why do you avoid answering anyone else? are you incapable? scatheist and ‘Tis Himself both had statements/questions. that were ignored.

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