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Not Greater than the Master

“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.” (John 15:18-20, NASB)

HT: WorldNetDaily

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10 Responses

  1. Rich,
    do you think the people with the sticks, guns and helmets are more like Jesus? Or the people who are being denied their rights and can’t do anything but try to walk through the streets and raise their voices in protest? Last I read my Bible, Jesus was part of the crowds of people who had been rejected by their society as being not good enough or holy enough, not part of the armed police force sent to keep them quiet.

    As Jesus said: if they are silent, the stones will cry out.

  2. Maybe not Duckie01, but the Christians praying for the salvation of the protesters certainly were more like Jesus.

  3. The Christians praying for them, perhaps, but definitely not the Christians donating time and money to deny them their human rights.

  4. Exactly what human rights are being denied here?

  5. The right to have their love and commitment to another consenting adult recognized legally by the state just like straight people have, as I’m sure you are already aware. Well into the last century interracial marriage was illegal based on people’s prejudices and some flimsy texts from the Bible pulled out of context to support racism. This is no different. It is a great sin of the church that we have rejected our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters for so long and this has caused great anger (as you see in your video) but many churches are already repenting of this. In time and with patience, I believe homophobic churches will recede into the minority (just like racist churches) and we may be reconciled someday on a societal level. In the meantime, we can encourage our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters who are being persecuted for being different from the majority, with the wonderful passage you quoted: If the world hates you, keep in mind it hated me first.

  6. Duckie01,

    Is homosexuality a sin? Our Bible makes it very clear that it is. The verses that describe how God feels about homosexuality are readily available. How do you explain those away?

  7. there are 7 verses that people have interpreted to be referencing homosexuality: 4 are mistranslated, none are by Jesus and all are referring to objectifying sexual behavior. None reference committed same sex partnership between loving, monogamous adults–that was unheard of and not addressed in that time. You can reference the Romans passage, but keep in mind that Paul also forbids women to speak in church and braid their hair. You can go to Leviticus, but Leviticus forbids people to eat shellfish and wear clothing that is woven from two kinds of thread (so polyester/cotton blends are out). You are picking one ancient standard out of hundreds and attaching to it because it fits your prejudice.
    That’s what I call sin.

  8. Duckie01,

    Entire books have been written to debunk the claim that the verses have been misinterpreted or mistranslated. In fact, only a small minority of serious Bible scholars would hold that Scripture does not speak negatively against homosexuality.

    Paul’s admonitions against women were written to a specific culture at a specific time. He was not commanding women to be totally silent in Church, but rather he was admonishing them to keep their loud, boisterous objections to themselves (at least until they got home). As for braiding of hair and wearing jewelry, Paul was speaking out against the fleshly vanity they lavished upon themselves.

    Who said anything about picking out one ancient standard over another? Do you know that Christians are no longer bound by the Law? The Ancient Israelites may have been forbidden to eat shellfish or cut their beards like the pagans, but with Christian freedom, we are not. In that sense, nobody is preferring one standard over another. The Old Testament Laws simply do not apply to us.

    However, we can still learn from these OT Laws how God views certain subjects, including homosexuality. And what we know is that God is against it now, just like He was then, for God does not change. He may not prescribe stonings for homosexuals today, but that is because the laws governing punishment in Ancient Israel were written to the people of that place, time, and country – not here, now, and in the United States. He may deal with sin differently today, but that doesn’t mean He’s somehow changed his opinion on it.

    Lastly, on what basis do you conclude that I am being prejudiced? This is a very typical tactic that I know is used: if a person doesn’t agree with the sweeping endorsement of homosexual values, they’re automatically labeled a bigot or hate-monger of some kind. If they raise any objection to the radical homosexual agenda, they are shouted down. It’s designed to be a scare tactic, but it won’t work here.

    Duckie01, I have a coworker who is gay. She’s an amazingly nice, smart, and thoughtful person. I enjoy talking with her very much. That being said though, the Bible says she is living in sin and is therefore under God’s wrath (not just for her homosexuality, by the way). Do I hate her? No, of course not. Am I somehow prejudiced against her? Nope. She is a sinner just like every one else, and she needs the forgiveness and mercy of Jesus Christ, which I earnestly hope she will come to receive.

  9. Rich,
    Since you seem to have dismissed all of the old testament laws as no longer applicable (though I will keep in mind God’s apparently unchanging distaste for shellfish and cotton/polyester shirts), all you have remaining is the Romans passage by Paul. Here you are able to contextualize all of Paul’s other comments as being addressed to a certain culture in a certain time. Your inability to do that for the one passage that references same sex sexuality (though it primarily refers to objectifying sex) is an illustration of prejudice. How do you know that Paul was not commanding women to be totally silent in church? You are taking a verse, adding context plus a dash of assumption that Paul was basically a decent person and coming up with an interpretation that is palatable to you. Then you are going to the next passage, totally ignoring the context and lifting it up as God’s clear condemnation of same sex partnership. Even more disturbing, you appear to be completely unaware of what you are doing.

    On love and hate: in the bible, love and hate are actions, not feelings. You may feel warmly towards your co-worker but if you advocate for her to be treated as a second class citizen when it comes to marriage, you are treating her with hatred, not love. You may not feel prejudiced but you are treating some people like they are worth less than other people because they are different and that is the definition of prejudice.

  10. Duckie01,

    You are certainly entitled to think whatever you want of me. I’m really not going to spend an inordinate amount of time explaining why I am not prejudiced or bigoted towards homosexuals.

    I stand by what God’s Word clearly and plainly says on the subject.

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